[edit] browser resizing

resizing browser borks layout in FF, can we make inputs resizable?

should resize without problems now http://test.twext.com/080724/

tested working=)

[edit] no forced LOWercase

groovy thanks.. =) likewise we don't wanna force minusculo lowercase.. so

THIS      esto
is        es
POSsible  poSIble

SYLablic  acCENto
twext     twext

[edit] TEXTTEXT,twxttwxt headers

and put the twxttwxt under the TEXTTEXT.. (the content is in the right place but misidentified, so simply switch the TEXTTEXT line and the twxttwxt line)

done

[edit] later

we may wanna start thinking about how to include links with somekinda markdown

This  esto
is    es
text  texto
      
here  aqui
is    esta
link  liga  >>link

[edit] 0723

Fixed at http://test.twext.com/080722/

just tested again, worked this time, except for details spec'd below.. now in red.. one more thing to add if easy, a little more SLOP:

ENGLISH.english
ENGLISH.espanol
ESPANOL.espanol
ESPANOL.english
SPANGLISH.spanglish
+

the "+" will be our dodo face to add/remove languages from user interface.. the same language twext can be fun to play with.. more than three languages we may shift to double menu..

[edit] 0722

test here http://test.twext.com/080722/

bato loco, did you test el guey on the server? http://test.twext.com/080722/twext/ todos nomas imprimen estructuras TEXTTEXT twxttwxt etc pero faltan los contenidos 8P

wierd, i just tried again and it worked.... no time to dig deeper right now, more time in afternoon

after resolving above, only one fix to make.. 080722 still is forcing caps on xcrollxcroll text, so:

NO

WHATEVER TITLE

DON'T      que no
FORCE      forzar
ALLCAPS    mayuscolos
           
TO         al
TEXT SIDE  lado texto
           
           
OK         ok

YES

WHATEVER TITLE

don't      que no
force      forzar
ALLCAPS    mayusculos
           
to         al
TEXT side  lado texto
           
           
OK         ok

yes i'm anal about graphics and presentation.. aguanta porfiz, 'cause it ain't gonna change.. =)

btw we're gonna try to teach people to type TITLE on first line.. sooner or later text typed into title field will automagically copy on first line of TEXT input (then twxt input allows for translation of title and input doc is simply structured).. "untitled" docs will get title from first line of text.. this might work with quotes, sayings and dichos which are super easy twexts to make and use.. but this is una batalla del next phase

anyway, we're even closer than close to having this first dodo face all the way done and a nice new story to share.. =)

[edit] 0721

Text rearrange done. UI simplified as on dodo face Test http://test.twext.com/080721/

tested http://test.twext.com/080721/twext/OK.WE.ARE.ALMOST.THERE..ENGLISH.espanol..080721.215404..dod0.txt

cool.. do you want me to do a story now or should we clean it up for presentation?

1. link the xx.gif to http://twext.com/help or an amazingly simple javascript pop up w/ /help contents

done link with twext.com/help

1. there's a temporary preview that happens before simple link prints.. we wanna lose that wierdness, make it simple

done removing the preview

1. remove forced ALLCAPS from xcrollxcroll (the first copy) and TEXTTEXT (the third copy) see BELOW

done removing the caps

1. remove footer thing " - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - + "

done removing this

1. add a period between langs in option menu

done adding a period

1. tweak ui:

I don't get what's the difference of this image with current UI.

sorry i wish i could dig in and do the above, no time.. i really appreciate it, thanks.. above sounds like above can happen fast, so please start thinking about dodo data in wild.. how can we browse it (on just our server for starters)? jason's got a way to read the xcrollxcroll text and print pdf html etc.. you got a way to read the inputs and print previewpreview.. roc an rol

i have a rough spec started for simple ui to sort dodo, hopefully done tomorrow.. but would love to talk skype so we can coordinate.. thanks to you, we finally have a very very simple simple way to save and manage twext files.. so..

where would you take dodo from here?

=)

[edit] 0719

Fixed. Text on preview is better separated. http://test.twext.com/080719/

super! fftwexter tested working sweet, rok and rol.. all that's left is some rearranging, a trick with the title and voila: we got a text only ui for twext.. coooo1!!

http://test.twext.com/080719/twext/THIS.IS.THE.TITLE.OF.THE.SONG..ENGLISH.espanol..080719.174201..dod0.txt change from

BELOW

THEN         entonces
THE LYRICS   la letra
START        empieza

MY HEART     mi corazon
SKIPS        se para
A BEAT       un lateazo


CHORUS       coro
FIN          fin


TEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXT

THEN
THE LYRICS
START

MY HEART
SKIPS
A BEAT


CHORUS
FIN


twxttwxttwxttwxttwxttwxttwxttwxttwxttwxt

entonces
la letra
empieza

mi corazon
se para
un lateazo


coro
fin


PREVIEWPREVIEWPREVIEWPREVIEWPREVIEWPREVIEW

THIS IS THE TITLE OF THE SONG

T H E N    T H E   L Y R I C S   S T A R T   
entonces   la letra              empieza     

M Y   H E A R T   S K I P S   A   B E A T   
mi corazon        se para     un lateazo    


C H O R U S   F I N   
coro          fin

to this:

THIS IS THE TITLE OF THE SONG

then         entonces
the lyrics   la letra
start        empieza

my heart     mi corazon
skips        se para
a beat       un lateazo


chorus       coro
fin          fin


previewpreviewpreviewpreviewpreviewpreview

T H E N    T H E   L Y R I C S   S T A R T   
entonces   la letra              empieza     

M Y   H E A R T   S K I P S   A   B E A T   
mi corazon        se para     un lateazo    


C H O R U S   F I N   
coro          fin     


TEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXTTEXT

then
the lyrics
start

my heart
skips
a beat


chorus
fin


twxttwxttwxttwxttwxttwxttwxttwxttwxttwxt

entonces
la letra
empieza

mi corazon
se para
un lateazo


coro
fin

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +

then dodo face

[edit] 0718

Ahh, got second language alingment working now at http://test.twext.com/080718/

http://test.twext.com/080718/twext/LA.CUCARACHA.MAYBE.LONG..ENGLISH.espanol..080718.193442..dod0.txt working great on long songs.. this is really cool, thanks gabriel :)

now just from this

P A R A   S E A R A P E S ,   S A L T I L L O   
for       sarapes             sinaloa           
C H I H U H U A   P A R A   S O L D A D O S   
chihuahua         for       soldiers          
P A R A   M U J E R E S   ,   J A L I S C O ;   
for       women               guadalajar        
P A R A   A M A R   T O D I T O S   L A D O S   
for       to love   every little    side        

L A   C U C A R A C H A ,   E T C .   
the cockroack etc              

to this

P A R A   S E A R A P E S ,   S A L T I L L O   
for       sarapes             sinaloa           

C H I H U H U A   P A R A   S O L D A D O S   
chihuahua         for       soldiers          

P A R A   M U J E R E S   ,   J A L I S C O ;   
for       women               guadalajar        

P A R A   A M A R   T O D I T O S   L A D O S   
for       to love   every little    side         


L A   C U C A R A C H A ,   E T C .   
the cockroack etc 

then dodo xcroll output from dodo face..

=)

[edit] 0716

Alignment on ASCII should work. Lines are also fixed, so it should be all ready. Test at [2] (I put today's date instead of yesterday because I finished at 1am, saw the date and typed it away without thinking... I guess I'm tired).

http://test.twext.com/080717/twext/IF.I.WERE.A.CARPENTER..ENGLISH.espanol..080717.014001..dod0.txt

PREVIEWPREVIEWPREVIEWPREVIEWPREVIEWPREVIEW

IF I WERE A CARPENTER

I F   I   W E R E    A   C A R P E N T E R   
si  yo  estuviera  un  carpintero        
A N D   Y O U   W E R E   A   L A D Y   
y     estuviera tu    una mujer   
W O U L D   Y O U   M A R R Y   M E   A N Y W A Y ?    
me casarias                         de todas formas  

W O U L D   Y O U   H A V E   M Y   B A B Y ?   
tendrias                    mi bebe

fixed font twexter wansta print this way:

PREVIEWPREVIEWPREVIEWPREVIEWPREVIEWPREVIEW

I F   I   W E R E    A   C A R P E N T E R   
si    yo  estuviera  un  carpintero        

A N D   Y O U   W E R E   A   L A D Y   
y       estuviera tu      una mujer   

W O U L D   Y O U   M A R R Y   M E   A N Y W A Y ?    
me casarias                           de todas formas  


W O U L D   Y O U   H A V E   M Y   B A B Y ?   
tendrias                      mi bebe

then dodo xcroll ouput from dodo face..

[edit] 0714

Done dodo ASCII, or first attempt to it :) Hope I got it right, but I think there are some bugs around. Test here

tested here.. it's not there yet (apparently it's formating chunks as complete lines but that should be an obvious error.. )

here's what it's doin

G E T    
ponte

U P 
arriba


S T A Y 
quedate

O N 
en

T H E 
el

S C E N E 
escenario

here's what is should do

G E T   U P  
ponte   arriba

S T A Y   O N   T H E   S C E N E 
quedate   en    el      escenario

if twxt wider than TEXT add N spaces like example add 3 spaces so "nosotros" fits under "W E "

W E      A R E   F A M I L Y
nosotros somos   familia

M O T H E R ,  B R O T H E R ,  S I S T E R   A N D   M E
madre          hermano          hermana       y       yo

dodo xcroll spec updated to 1) ALLOW lowercase TEXT 2) fast type TEXTtwxt idea 3)unentrap dodo from versions.

[edit] 0712

some pedo con non-ascii characters.. are we UTF-8?

also, from dod0 some added spaces make it easier to edit by hand:

2. add N spaces to make TEXT twxt dodo xcroll input column

TEXT       twxt
--------+-----------
here is    aqui esta
the text   el texto 
        -->
there is   alli'ta
twext      la traducion
           include N spaces on empty lines
           so i can arrow up/down twxt column
ok         bien

[edit] 0711

la.cucaracha has long chunk inputs that failed test at /080710/ .. when shortened, i was able to save.. but we do need to handle loooooong inputs.. (if inputs are too long, clicking "dodo" don't do anything.. the longest i can get so far is this..

I checked and it seems its a javascript language limit. I'll do some more research and ask around to confirm this. Anyway its probable i can work around this.

ok.. btw such a long song is quite atypical.. the norm is about 1/3 that length.. like this, which worked super :) so maybe not a huge urgent priority to debug if not easy.. more important we simplify ui, then go for complete dodo xcroll output, including ascii.. que en stats hay mucha interes en ascii twexter, que ahora haremos en UT8 y nomas para letra (sin line breaks)

[edit] 0710

Update in http://test.twext.com/080710/ Hope to have finally fixed the format correctly.

bammo, perfect dodo formatting.. awesome.. now just simplify the ui to simple dodo face (eliminate the preview, unecessary links etc, make look simple like the dodo face, or simpler and we can proceed.. this is working great.. since we're losing the preview, it'll probably work in IE too.. that's important.. sweet =)

[edit] 0709

jason has made a doc to explain his alt twexter structure: http://tudisco.biz/stuff/twextwiki/doku.php?id=doc:dodostruct

above link may affect gabriel's current dodo face and ascii twexter (if we do that)

many ways to skin a cat.. sounds like tudisco twexter does it fast =) this probably affects our document type definition someday but later

the main confusion i see maybe pending now is about word "dodo"

dodo at http://twext.com/dodo means

• a file naming convention or schema to include data in filename
• ultimate destintation is http://twext.com/idn urls

"dodo" is about data in file name..

• to find twext data in the wild
• to suck dodo into twext databasi

"twext" is "TWin tEXT", two text format

• http://twext.com/bifocal_bitext
• http://twext.com/twext
• http://twext.com/method

this maybe isn't a huge deal but may cause confusion later or.. maybe sooner

gabriel is currently focused on a parallel twexter track

• http://twext.com/dodo_face helps me make pdfs now
• http://twext.com/dodo_xcroll for twext data in the wild
• http://soon.wedo/dodo_browse by title, langs, time

[edit] 0708

ok thank god for skype.. i think we got it clear now :)

we're doing a simple new dodo face, that's it.. working with the twext method.. to make simple dod0 file, then dodo xcroll.. the only thing we didn't cover in tonight's skype is options..

okay, but what options do i put in? I only see english and spanish on the spec.

ENGLISHespanol, ESPANOLenglish, SPANGLISHspanglish

ok gabriel is starting with a dod0 interface.. cool..

ok
[12:06:44 PM] Duke Crawford says: i see the json
[12:06:56 PM] Duke Crawford says: dodo is much different
[12:07:01 PM] Duke Crawford says: http://twext.com/dod0
[12:07:18 PM] Duke Crawford says: purpose: text file any idiot like me can write
[12:07:29 PM] Duke Crawford says: http://twext.com/dodo_face makes it easier
[12:07:44 PM] Duke Crawford says: i can print PDF from dodo
[12:07:50 PM] Duke Crawford says: json not needed now
[12:12:04 PM] Gabriel Saldana says: okay, so the contents of the file must be on that format then
[12:12:10 PM] Gabriel Saldana says: okay, i'll work on that

now that it seems hard to make this very simple tool work as a complex web app, how about we try to make it work as a client only standalone... i just wanna save some freaking text on my machine.. how hard can this be??

[edit] 0705

jason updated roadmap, it's looking realistic.. the roadmap page wantsa be simple, this one can get messy.. i like the conservative approach, it is important to project spirit to meet (or beat) milestones..

[edit] Jason's Road Map for July 2008

List for a complete editor.

• 0707: PHP-Mysql backend code complete to start saving. I spending more time on this and should be explained somewhere.

yes, this was spec'd at a week, now it's at two, please explain on tuesday thanks

• 0714: Work on new design for interface. Incorporate some the new ideas as Switch button, alignment option, etc. My first thought was a tool bar like interface, like the options you have in word. But for twext!. Thought between the three of us I think will come up with something usable and most importantly intuitive for the users. The design should include things on this list only. No comments (talk) or extras added right now.

options: SWITCH is useful for hybrids like spanglish, but not essential for simplest ui.. i don't see any why at all for ALIGNMENT.. for UI we want simple simple simple.. jason's STYLE ui is better and hopeful can easily pop in and out from a http://b.twext.com/080624 like ui.. no comments (talk).. we do NOT even need to chunker and automatic translation yet.. those can be next phase http://b.twext.com/simply

• 0714: Simple save working in demonstration.

this included FIND (like http://b.twext.com/simplest/#FIND but a lot prettier..

• 0714: Jason starts on user interface. After alot of thought, I can not see a simple interface with saving etc without having users. in fact every future feature sort of requires it.

yep, twexter is all about DB per user

• 0721: Move working features from demonstration twexter to new template.
• 0721: Finish integrating user system into twexter interface and saving.
• 0728: The week to catch-up. There is alot in the above list and bugs are common occurrences. This is the week to where clean up and bug fixes and good testing should be done.

this one looks thin.. testing and bug cleanup sounds like will keep us busy into august

[edit] party time

ok maybe not yet.. but there is good reason to have working demo presentable at end of july.. tuesday we'll figure out what that means and what it takes to get there

[edit] august

Probably not happening this month but here are my ideas for what is next.

• week5: Simple pdf printing, make available to registered users only.

yes, pdf is useful and motivating increased user participation also

• week6: Interface makes pretty URLs available for sharing documents. Email to friend for example.

this is huge but needs idn.. but we can demo with ascii urls

• week6 & 5: Make a embed into you website snippet available. I would like to note this can be done with out the twexter library at all as html can be cached in the database. meaning you have a simple simple simple very few line script which just outputs this into any webpage.

sounds very practical.. doable in a couple weeks rather than 6++ months? perfect=)

[edit] My Design Ideas

Just adding these notes here as I think this is probably the next step and we all are going to have to work together.

I am kinda strict at times when I code, but html is another story. You might disagree with me and that's fine. I am hoping Gabriel can help me with design at first. CSS and Strict XHTML are wonderful and impress web people alot. but a more relaxed DTD full of tables is very fast and works on every browser known to man.

if gabriel is in this thing, now is the time to show real interest.. if not, we're set back a little but won't die.. we have a dtd.. it can be updated.. i hate anal retentive strict xhtml and love loosey goosey flexible tools for humans.. PERFECT

When things works it impresses everybody. So my only worry here is that the design works everywhere. I tend to go with a mix of CSS and Table design as I hate to have to constantly tweak CSS style sheets for every browser that nobody uses. But if you are happy with it... all the power to ya! If it works it works, if it uses new standards, cool. Current demo ignores just about any modern idea about good html design.

we have a practical problem.. all that matters is tools that works for testing with 5 translators and language learners.. it's not about impressing geeks, it's about making the SIMPLEST tool that works.. you get it, perfect

The design and javascript code will never be mixed at all. so to begin with... we just need a good html design for the editor that have the buttons,combos and controls in there place and looking good.

ok i get it, this is what gabriel and i can maybe work on this week.. note: jergas jefa and company are in monterrey next week doing ongoing seminar w/ gabriel, i'm guessing he won't have much time next week..

After that happens we can incorporate by the library and features and expand the HTML when needed.

let's talk tuesday about html design.. i can do flow and get polished html design from freelance site (or your guy in sma) if gabriel is busy w/ jergas jefa and co.

[edit] Why I choose EXT.JS - This is really well thought out.. I could have gone for a pure library but...

• Javascript Like library... Prototype and Jquery try to be ruby like or imitate features in other languages adding bloat and making them slower.
• Ext.js has a script builder.. you can add only the features you need. Keep the script small and fast. The script I currently include in the demonstration twexter can probably be cut way down.
• Ext.js has real money behind it and support from large companies like adobe.
• Ext.js, no need to worry about Safari,FireFox2,FireFox3,ie5,ie6,ie7,ie8,opera.. Previous work done to address common issues. Less to think about. Can think about good features instead.
• Embedding... Extjs is not really needed if you have a central place to store documents and can cache output. Almost no javascript would be needed at all.
• Embedable editor can also be done... But really for another talk.

this all sounds good, practical and result oriented.. perfect, we're moving forward

[edit] 0704

ok looks like we'll be really testing at end of july.. looking for five users to help us..
http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20000319.html

i think we can find in town for hands on testing.. i can definitely find students, but our primary target is translators..

[edit] 0703

define, cleanup roadmap.. narrow focus to this month of july: we gotta show la jefa a real deal testing in public by end of month or sooner

we're coordinating by wiki, skype, im.. roadmap wansta be real simple focused with clear achievable baby steps..

this page dev can hold more messy dialogue if needed to make each baby step happen and coordinate our communications..

a great way to keep up with recent wiki activity is http://twext.com/Special:Recentchanges (just click "recent" link in menu to left).. as you do this you see value in summarizing edits before saving them

duke black gabriel red jason blue